Many thanks for the fresh new estimate that i hadn’t viewed ahead of
I am not sure if you had use of Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, whilst are composed once the a reference for Us citizens having colonial forefathers from Plantagenet origin. The guy provides among his evidences you to Joanna are the fresh mother away from Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn offered the brand new services from Knighton and Norton castles during the Shropshire to Ralph Mortimer when the guy and you may Gwladus were hitched. It might had been illegal to own Llewelyn provide Joanna’s property so you can an illegitimate daughter (otherwise person who was not a baby regarding Joanna). New characteristics regarding Norton and you will Knighton remained regarding Mortimer relatives thereafter. The fresh estimate are, “Whenever the fresh Queen bring Property in order to one which have a beneficial woman of his kindred during the honest relationship, and woman dyeth as opposed to point, the man regarding Kings case should maybe not wait for his lifestyle, as the woman caused the this new provide.” This basically means, the newest properties might have reverted to brand new crown just before it could have been given to an infant who had been maybe not Joanna’s.
Hello, Marilyn, I did not have access to the Plantaganet Origins because of the Doug Richardson, however, performed have access to the countless talks related to him and you will their concepts with other genealogists (some to possess him, however, many together with facing). I think, once i made in my personal earlier papers, one exactly what swings it personally(Joanna as being the mother out-of Gwladus), ‘s the import of one’s properties your talk about in order to Ralph de- Mortimer upon his ed a couple of the pupils ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not imagine that in the event that Gwladus was actually new ded her youngsters ergo. Inspite of the arguments between the eminent genealogists I speak about significantly more than, there can be an over-all opinion you to Gwladus Ddu is going to be reasonably recognized as this new daughter off Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth from the Joanna, child (next legitimised) out of John, Queen out-of England. I want to bring this opportunity to accept Sharon (into the a contact for me) you to Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian try by Tangwystyl rather than Joanna, thereby becoming bloodstream cousin to help you Gruffudd. We foot so it partially towards the a contemporary record utilized in ‘Regal or other Historic letters Illustrative of your own reign off Henry 111,’ modified by Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step 1. To the users five-hundred-503 ‘s the transcript off an original page old Marshall, Earl out of Pembroke, to help you King Henry 111. In this letter, Marshall talks about his siege of the castles out-of Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. The guy directories the folks he found in the castle O’Realy whenever it surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre ainsi que matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I am told that the ensures that i have here Gwenllian, child out-of Prince llywelyn, which appears to be entitled ‘aunt from Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd to be the newest illegitimate young man of Llywelyn, it is drawn that ‘de- patre et matre’ means Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd have been full blood sis and you may sibling. Had Gwenllian started Joanna’s child and therefore King Henry’s relative, absolutely Marshall would have stated on that fact? It incapacity away from de- Lacy’s wife since king’s relative, try taken as close particular facts you to definitely Gwenllian was not the new child of your king’s cousin Joanna.
These types of characteristics was in fact part of Joanna’s maritagium out of their dad Queen John
Ken: Many thanks for you to regard to Gwenllian. I’m not a specialist genealogist, however, I actually do a great amount of lookup on my own outlines. I do believe a number of the “pros” are extremely envious and you can angry each and every most other (at the very least apparently method in some of all things they post). Discover issues that the audience is not attending see with full confidence regarding people in the newest MA while they don’t remain public record information instance we carry out now, very genealogists and you can historians need to use their best https://kissbrides.com/web-stories/top-10-hot-iraqi-women/ judgment within the sorting something away. In fact, public information was a pretty “new” design – many claims within the us don’t remain facts from births and you will fatalities through to the very early 1900’s. I fall into multiple descent communities where I have had so you can confirm 11 otherwise a dozen years, and you may trust in me it is not easy. So i most see the situation away from comparing MA ancestors. (And the sad thing is the fact that records that are available towards the MA try of your royalty and you may nobility – absolutely nothing after all towards the prominent someone).